kficrevolution | PROJECT ANON: 2(012)

lol i hope i am not mean when i say the writer probably didn't intend things to turn out this way because when i write, the interpretations the readers come up with make so much sense but it was never what i meant in the first place lol ;___;

but i think ia with the vague part because everything about the fic is so ambiguous and can be read in a number of different ways!

i don't think you're mean at all, anon! i always maintain that shakespeare probably never meant for everybody to write shittonnes of essays over his plays and read all this symbolism into it when he was writing. he was probably just like rolling along like "need to make a living~"

*on his plays lol i can't grammar. orz

DA and I totally used to think that too but no, the guy has written everything you can write ever. I'm not even joking, I got off my ass and literally like read every nook and cranny of him two years ago and dear God, his mind. His mind.

i have always planned to do that! shakespeare is wonderful from what (regretfully) little i've read of him. of course i have no qualms with him being like a literary genius having produced the volume of work he did, i just have a long-running fascination of the 'author is dead' idea and how readers can interpret a piece of work in ways that the author might never have intended or imagined!

I don't know but, I mean, have you seen that whole "The dress is blue!" meme? Because on one level that is exactly how I feel. I do think sometimes critics take it too far and make the destination their argument rather than the author's intentions. But then at the same time, I don't think that the large volume of critical canon is a shot in the dark. I mean, I know when I read something, my mind makes those connections instantly, it's like synapses firing up and you get a glimpse of the mind of the text. And I think as far as the author goes, it can be deliberate but it can also be subconscious. The mind itself is not fully dissected so I'm not particularly uncomfortable assigning things away to a less than crafty, more by virtue of being human explanation. For example all those pre-Freudian narratives which so accurately anticipated him. No discourse springs up from its definitive text, it has been formulating in several minds through several years. I am so sorry for TL;DR this comment is. But, yes, one can never know for sure.

not to scare you away anon, but i think i love you and i am not one to talk about tl;dr, just look at the state of my review. tl;dr is wonderful! anyway i actually haven't seen this meme, and i just tried a quick google search but it turned up nothing so if you'd care to enlighten me i would be grateful!

i totally agree with you where one can never know for sure, and i think that is the beauty both of writing and readership, and all that comes in between. i know exactly what you mean by that instantaneous reaction when you read something, and i'm really not very knowledgeable on this (so excuse me if i sound totally inept!) but i feel like different readers will experience this formulating perhaps totally different connections based on their lived experiences and histories consciously or not. also i feel this is the same on the author's side, and it's the way that all these viewpoints cross and dissect each other that generates so much discussion.

i do also feel, in a way similar to how you mentioned, that when authors write and generate ideas and contribute to discourses that they build upon those layers of history that have preceded them, and which they've also learnt and internalised and taken into themselves. actually that sort of reminds me of jung's idea of the "collective unconscious" though it's not quite the same and i have no idea why it popped into my head.

oh no now look at me tl;dr too ;___; i'm sorry if i just sort of sounded dumb during this comment, it was all just one big long ramble!

Aww, anon! Well, to sum up my reaction to your reply, I certainly love you too because you hit the nail on the head, particularly with this: i feel like different readers will experience this formulating perhaps totally different connections based on their lived experiences and histories consciously or not. also i feel this is the same on the author's side, and it's the way that all these viewpoints cross and dissect each other that generates so much discussion. That is exactly what is, anon! Like a woman will never be able to write like a man, to go for the most obvious example. Each group and individual has a separate literary identity. That is why I love doing what I do, with the 7 odd people who surround me because no one ever has the right answer, and we can think of 30 answers for the same question. It blows my mind everyday. Oh, and this is the meme I meant: http://mlkshk.com/r/2BEK! It's a pretty spot on observation, haha.

And yes, the Jung point, although I literally have no primary knowledge of Jung. But that is what it is, a layering of everything, and I'm kind of a naturalist so I split it into the genes and context but different people give different explanations for the source and pattern of these multiple voices. My point with Shakespeare was that he anticipated so many major, modern discourses in a way that you cannot write free of a Shakespearean canon. You might not have read him and think you're being original but there is a good chance he's already done it, haha.

And this reply is so long again, too, I'm sorry! And no, you don't sound dumb at all. Believe me, I was and probably still am the most average of my graduating class so we're all love and equality here for sure.

that meme is gold! i laughed out loud, thank you for sharing it haha. i had so many of these moments in high school. would you mind if i ask exactly what you do? i'm curious now! and going to your example on women not being able to write like men, i find this immensely interesting and relevant to k-fandom given how the majority of fanfic tends to be written for and read by women, often with male characters. this is as far as i can tell, anyway! but what implications does that have for when we review/comment on fic, and say that it characterises them well or portrays them realistically? so many questions aha ;;

it's been a while since i brushed up on my jung so i probably shouldn't try! haha i don't really think we will ever be able to tell the source and pattern of differing voices, but i do also kind of split into genes and context. anyway since talking with you i am really motivated to go read a tonne of shakespeare stuff now while i'm on holidays, haha! i've always felt guilty for not doing it sooner because i've loved what i studied in high school and i really want to get my nerd glasses on and read more of and about his works.

ah, anon, i'm really enjoying talking to you even though i've been up all night and i really need sleep! i will have to leave this for a while now but i hope i don't lose you :(

Hello, Hello,

I'm not looking to cause problems or anything, but I did have a bit of a problem with this statement: Like a woman will never be able to write like a man, and I don't really think it's good to let perceptions like this go unchallenged.

While it is definitely true that a large number of male and female authors tend to write with an eye towards different things, it's important to note that authorial voice is formed by experience and exposure.

The literary influences one has had, the level of technical instruction and life experience are going to create the individual voice. It is individuals who write stories not genders, and as no two individuals are the same, no two authorial voices will be the same.

It would be naive to believe that only male authors would have similarities with other male authors and females authors with female. Amongst people whose experiences and literary exposure is comparable that is where you are most likely to find similarities.

The statement also appears to be taking a binary view of gender and I'm afraid I feel unqualified to address why and how that is problematic.

And finally, I would be hesitant to toss this kind of statement around without qualification. There are unfortunate implications attached to it that I am sure you did not intend. There is still an unspoken but pervasive tendency to relate male with good or better and female with secondary. Which, as it did not appear to be your point at all, could give the wrong impression. -I'm not sure if I should leave this last part as I would like for it to be irrelevant but there it is. Sorry, Anon, I hope you don't find any of this offensive.

hi! i'm the person talking to anon/op of the review um sorry to barge in ;-;

i just wanted to say that i think you have a really good point and while i don't think anon meant it to come with the implications attached that it did, it's important to acknowledge them and their pervasiveness. so thank you for raising the issue! i'm personally finding this an insightful addition to the discussion we were having.

Barge away, Anon! I'm sorry to have inserted myself into your conversation.

I agree with you that Anon probably didn't mean any of the things a statement like that can carry, but I do still feel we have to be careful about how we toss conclusions like that about. This is totally in keeping with the conversation that you were having above, reading a statement like that, you internalize it and if you don't look at it and think about it right away, or if you see it often and repeatedly, it will start to inform your opinions on things. It can be very seductive to rely on the things you 'know' when what you know has been informed by dozens of opinions not your own and throw-away comments that haven't been fully thought through.

I'm actually a little sorry to be missing out on what you are discussing. A large part of what you're talking about is what I tend to think of as the apple effect.

What I mean by that is that an author is never just talking about/mentioning an apple. The bible is, I believe, the most widely read document in the world and there are millions of people who know Eve's story and the Garden of Eden. Also, if we're going with a conservative estimate, there are roughly three generations of North Americans who have grown up with Disney's Snow White somewhere in their past. So if an author mentions an apple they're not just talking about a red fruit that's crisp and juicy, they are mentioning everything the reader has ever known or related to apples.

this response is all over the place, sorry!

it's more than okay, anon! i thought your response was quite coherent. i really do appreciate where you're coming from, and i think that it's really easy to miss the implications of those kinds of statements especially exactly because nobody walks around second-guessing everything that comes out of their mouth. i agree on the internalising bit, we are all socialised into particular settings and that can really change what we 'know'. so i'm glad you came and pointed it out, because as anon and i were talking about people do perceive and interpret things differently, and i think this is a great example of that!

you could join in, anon! well that's if this thread doesn't get lost, which i think it already might've haha.

yes, i think your apple effect does tie in a lot with what we were discussing! it's not just the object itself, but the cultural meanings and symbols that are assigned follow along automatically too. and everytime a new idea or work comes out, it sort of builds onto that shared cultural knowledge. i'm not sure if this is quite how you meant it orz

lol i could totally turn this into crit on lit in high school because sometimes a dying whale is just a dying whale. nothing more

omg i've done exactly this before. i do find it rather hard to distinguish between the dying whale idea and how i believe readers have so much potential to dig out volumes of meaning the author could never have imagined, but! the way that lit in high school is done often just makes me feel that kids are just taking in what teachers tell them is important and meaningful rather to pass their exams rather than really enjoying it for its own sake. at least where i live anyway!

PROJECT ANON: 2(012)

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